Excellent write-up. Thanks for sharing the AI regurgitation—and your two very pertinent additions: No gender confusion, and a strong element of masculine protection/rescuer. Spot on! I also love your selection of covers. (Frazetta is one of my favorite artists.)
I’m a female, but the sort of story you describe is mostly what I enjoy reading or watching. The feminist garbage has ruined every genre. I definitely prefer masculine men rescuing or protecting damsels for my entertainment. It makes every genre better when women are feminine and men are strong!
For sure! I think higher quality fiction (ie not leftist fantasies and fetishes shoehorned into lame, boring stories) are going to see a massive surge in popularity over the next 10-20 years—despite publishing gatekeepers trying to stand in the way. I know I am definitely not alone—and I’m in my 30s. The younger generations coming up are hungry for some GOOD STORIES!
I fully agree there! I ran my short story "Where the Hoot Owls Call" that I submitted to Rac Press's Weird West Revenants through grok and asked it to give me a critical review of my story. I wrote that thing with the full intention of it sounding like Louis L'Amour or looking like a John Wayne, Randolph Scott, Gary Cooper, or Jimmy Stewart style western - heroic men doing heroic things, feminine damsels needing protecting, action and all.
Grok tells me "the female character needs to have more initiative and play a more active part in the story; the damsel in distress trope is considered flat these days."
I considered that as a badge of honor and an indication I had succeeded in writing the style I was aiming for ;)
That’s an awesome confirmation. Never thought to do that.
Occasionally I’ll use Grok to suggest possible solutions to a scene I’m struggling with… and most of the time I end up saying, “Okay, well, I guess I’ll do the opposite of THAT…” It can be helpful—I get unstuck—but it’s often more of a guide of what NOT to do!
* Rescues damsel in distress repeatedly, who needs rescue. (3 times in chapters 1, 2, and 3, and later.) (Check)
* Lack of romance--No. Instant romance with said damsel.
Fundamentally, in absence of well-paying publications purely catering to Men's Adventure fans, it's expedient even for authors of action-adventure-girl-rescuing stories to put in a romance, and the rescued-damsel is the obvious choice. Such romances create a secondary appeal to girls and women who like books like The Princess Bride, and remain appealing to men if not done in too long-winded a way.
Note that I did not try to Amazon-categorize this as Men's Adventure, because it fails the critical metric of "is like other books in that Amazon category, which is now a cesspool." Instead it's Coming of Age, Swords & Sorcery, Adventure Romance, and Royalty Fairy Tale in some combination/selection.
A romantic subplot with the rescued damsel just makes sense. For efficiency, and because if both the rescuer and the rescued are both attractive, it would likely happen.
I haven’t yet began reading Lives of Velnin yet, but I’m saving up all the episodes in my inbox for a day I can binge-read them. Thanks for dropping by and offering readers another option.
This one made me think of my own published stories and whether they'd meet the MAF metrics. Mixed Mystic Arts is a fight story with a supernatural twist, so it's probably the closest one.
I think all of my stories are better described as "weird tales" in the classical sense, however.
This gives me some good insight as to how to make my own kids’ book target boys. I think if we’re going to have men sharpening their intellects, they have to start young
MAF: 'Men's adventure fiction' or 'Masculine AF.' 😉 In the past few years, only non-fiction has scratched this itch for me. I just read a non-fiction called Ghost Soldiers, about the Rangers who hiked 20+ miles through jungle to save POWs in the Philippines. It was full of action and masculine feats. Though there was a woman who ran a Japanese officer's nightclub. She sent medicine to the POWs with Jap money, and sent messages to the allies. Then there was a priest who risked his life to bring the medicine and food to the POWs.
I am currently writing a novel about a military squad saving people from aliens and trying to make it more MAF. Thanks for posting.
May I ask a question, though? Does Dude-lit have to be written by men? Especially by men. Because there are a lot of women, myself included, that want to read books written with a male audience in mind. I know I want to write stories about heroes doing heroic things, and I want it to be men, not women. I myself prefer books written for men, not women. Which is also why I scratch my head at the number of male authors writing books with female leads....
In any case, I myself want to write and read stories about men with little romance for the most part - I want more Louis L'Amour, Indiana Jones, Die Hard, etc - I don't often care for female-oriented stories. I want Treasure Island, Ivanhoe, Robin Hood, not Pride and Prejudice or Wuthering Heights.
So could Dude-lit be defined as stories written for a male audience with a male audience's tastes in mind, and use this as a blanket genre for the other more specific male oriented sub-genres out there?
"Which is also why I scratch my head at the number of male authors writing books with female leads...."
You and me both.
Hmm. Well, I guess there's always exceptions to any rule. What you're describing sounds like what I'd enjoy reading.
You might have to ride herd on your instincts, though, ensuring your heroes think and speak with male patterns, etc. Some of the fiction I've read written by women has dudes interacting with their friends the way women interact with their friends and it snaps that suspension of disbelief for me. Not assuming that's a problem you have; just noting that as an example of a pitfall.
"Some of the fiction I've read written by women has dudes interacting with their friends the way women interact with their friends"
Oh exactly - I am painfully aware of this! I was a big fan of the Magnificent Seven TV show precisely because of the male comradery amongst the 7, but since most of the fandom was still women and the fan fiction written for it was by women, I'd see so much bad fan fiction with the exact same problem you mention above - bromance that was very much feminine in nature to the point of being uncomfortable. The best fan fiction I found was by one woman who mentioned she grew up with several brothers and just wrote the interactions between her characters to match how she saw her brothers interact with each other; that made for some very good realistic stories.
I'd just as soon have male critiquers anyway, so hopefully they would help me keep it from sliding into feminine tropes. Though in my case, I've never had many female friends, hate female social groups and stay far from them, and I work in a very male oriented industry so I do hope that would also help me keep my fiction aimed at the male audience. My own attitudes are not typically feminine - might have to do with the fact I spent my youth reading a whole lot of male-oriented fiction which I can openly admit had a major influence on my outlook on life, both in what a good man ought to look like and in being the kind of woman that good man needed as a wife!
I had a story picked up by Racenteur Press for their "Weird West Revenants" 3rd weird west anthology, and my entire goal with that story was to sound like Louis L'Amour or the old John Wayne and Randolph Scott style westerns. If you ever get a chance to read it, I'd be interested to see if I hit the right tone to be "dude lit"!
My book, The Rooster Rider, scores on all points but Number 4; it's intended to be a serial and I have the MS for book two in editing. It's aimed more at boys but more adults have read it than kids and I've gotten good reviews from everyone.
Maybe I should be writing more MAF... If I'm unintentionally doing it anyway, I may as well capitalize on my hidden superpower.
Let's face it, the stuff out there now is FULL SUCK ASS lit.
I wrote the kind of story I'd want to read. Had to self pooblish since no one would touch it. Jeebus, you can't even find publishers who pick up anything like that. If it's not a bunch of men brushing each other's hair and talking about their feelings, you won't stand a chance. And never mind getting an agent; last I looked it was all faggotry all the time with the lit agent mob.
You should always write what you would like to read, IMO. It might take you a while to find your audience, but the timing is working out well in your case. We might be on the verge of a dude-lit renaissance.
I agree. However, a romantic subplot in The Executioner will read markedly different from one in something from Clancy or his successors. At least from what Clancy I'm familiar with. Same could be said for Coontz, Cussler, Wilbur Smith, and the other unisex authors.
Excellent write-up. Thanks for sharing the AI regurgitation—and your two very pertinent additions: No gender confusion, and a strong element of masculine protection/rescuer. Spot on! I also love your selection of covers. (Frazetta is one of my favorite artists.)
I’m a female, but the sort of story you describe is mostly what I enjoy reading or watching. The feminist garbage has ruined every genre. I definitely prefer masculine men rescuing or protecting damsels for my entertainment. It makes every genre better when women are feminine and men are strong!
Frazetta was a BEAST.
Thanks for visiting and for commenting. I know folks like you are still out there, but it's good to see that confirmed every now and then.
For sure! I think higher quality fiction (ie not leftist fantasies and fetishes shoehorned into lame, boring stories) are going to see a massive surge in popularity over the next 10-20 years—despite publishing gatekeepers trying to stand in the way. I know I am definitely not alone—and I’m in my 30s. The younger generations coming up are hungry for some GOOD STORIES!
I fully agree there! I ran my short story "Where the Hoot Owls Call" that I submitted to Rac Press's Weird West Revenants through grok and asked it to give me a critical review of my story. I wrote that thing with the full intention of it sounding like Louis L'Amour or looking like a John Wayne, Randolph Scott, Gary Cooper, or Jimmy Stewart style western - heroic men doing heroic things, feminine damsels needing protecting, action and all.
Grok tells me "the female character needs to have more initiative and play a more active part in the story; the damsel in distress trope is considered flat these days."
I considered that as a badge of honor and an indication I had succeeded in writing the style I was aiming for ;)
[Groan.] Well, a computer is only as smart as the data you feed it.
FWIW, I also consider that a badge of honor.
That’s an awesome confirmation. Never thought to do that.
Occasionally I’ll use Grok to suggest possible solutions to a scene I’m struggling with… and most of the time I end up saying, “Okay, well, I guess I’ll do the opposite of THAT…” It can be helpful—I get unstuck—but it’s often more of a guide of what NOT to do!
Let me do the usual thing in this sort of thread: hawk my latest book The Lives of Velnin https://brianheming.substack.com/p/the-lives-of-velnin by comparing it to the metric.
* Endless action (check)
* Rescues damsel in distress repeatedly, who needs rescue. (3 times in chapters 1, 2, and 3, and later.) (Check)
* Lack of romance--No. Instant romance with said damsel.
Fundamentally, in absence of well-paying publications purely catering to Men's Adventure fans, it's expedient even for authors of action-adventure-girl-rescuing stories to put in a romance, and the rescued-damsel is the obvious choice. Such romances create a secondary appeal to girls and women who like books like The Princess Bride, and remain appealing to men if not done in too long-winded a way.
Note that I did not try to Amazon-categorize this as Men's Adventure, because it fails the critical metric of "is like other books in that Amazon category, which is now a cesspool." Instead it's Coming of Age, Swords & Sorcery, Adventure Romance, and Royalty Fairy Tale in some combination/selection.
A romantic subplot with the rescued damsel just makes sense. For efficiency, and because if both the rescuer and the rescued are both attractive, it would likely happen.
I haven’t yet began reading Lives of Velnin yet, but I’m saving up all the episodes in my inbox for a day I can binge-read them. Thanks for dropping by and offering readers another option.
There use to be MEN who read books. Now, much less so. There are males with man buns on Tik Tok.
Aw, c'mon--you don't like man-buns??? How about man-purses?
Dude… please.
Ah, wives needing their husbands to help them when they get over their heads! This is the Manchu Law of marriage--"Wife bite off--Manchu."
This one made me think of my own published stories and whether they'd meet the MAF metrics. Mixed Mystic Arts is a fight story with a supernatural twist, so it's probably the closest one.
I think all of my stories are better described as "weird tales" in the classical sense, however.
Excellent dissection and identification. The badass macho chick subgenre is passed off as men’s fiction because “ooh look, guns and tits!”
LOL. Exactly.
This gives me some good insight as to how to make my own kids’ book target boys. I think if we’re going to have men sharpening their intellects, they have to start young
The younger the better, Benjamin.
Raconteur Press and some others are looking for boy's fiction submissions right now. If I wasn't so busy, I'd probably be writing some, too.
Maybe as a result of these efforts, "boys adventure fiction" will be a genre some day.
MAF: 'Men's adventure fiction' or 'Masculine AF.' 😉 In the past few years, only non-fiction has scratched this itch for me. I just read a non-fiction called Ghost Soldiers, about the Rangers who hiked 20+ miles through jungle to save POWs in the Philippines. It was full of action and masculine feats. Though there was a woman who ran a Japanese officer's nightclub. She sent medicine to the POWs with Jap money, and sent messages to the allies. Then there was a priest who risked his life to bring the medicine and food to the POWs.
I am currently writing a novel about a military squad saving people from aliens and trying to make it more MAF. Thanks for posting.
May I ask a question, though? Does Dude-lit have to be written by men? Especially by men. Because there are a lot of women, myself included, that want to read books written with a male audience in mind. I know I want to write stories about heroes doing heroic things, and I want it to be men, not women. I myself prefer books written for men, not women. Which is also why I scratch my head at the number of male authors writing books with female leads....
In any case, I myself want to write and read stories about men with little romance for the most part - I want more Louis L'Amour, Indiana Jones, Die Hard, etc - I don't often care for female-oriented stories. I want Treasure Island, Ivanhoe, Robin Hood, not Pride and Prejudice or Wuthering Heights.
So could Dude-lit be defined as stories written for a male audience with a male audience's tastes in mind, and use this as a blanket genre for the other more specific male oriented sub-genres out there?
"Which is also why I scratch my head at the number of male authors writing books with female leads...."
You and me both.
Hmm. Well, I guess there's always exceptions to any rule. What you're describing sounds like what I'd enjoy reading.
You might have to ride herd on your instincts, though, ensuring your heroes think and speak with male patterns, etc. Some of the fiction I've read written by women has dudes interacting with their friends the way women interact with their friends and it snaps that suspension of disbelief for me. Not assuming that's a problem you have; just noting that as an example of a pitfall.
"Some of the fiction I've read written by women has dudes interacting with their friends the way women interact with their friends"
Oh exactly - I am painfully aware of this! I was a big fan of the Magnificent Seven TV show precisely because of the male comradery amongst the 7, but since most of the fandom was still women and the fan fiction written for it was by women, I'd see so much bad fan fiction with the exact same problem you mention above - bromance that was very much feminine in nature to the point of being uncomfortable. The best fan fiction I found was by one woman who mentioned she grew up with several brothers and just wrote the interactions between her characters to match how she saw her brothers interact with each other; that made for some very good realistic stories.
I'd just as soon have male critiquers anyway, so hopefully they would help me keep it from sliding into feminine tropes. Though in my case, I've never had many female friends, hate female social groups and stay far from them, and I work in a very male oriented industry so I do hope that would also help me keep my fiction aimed at the male audience. My own attitudes are not typically feminine - might have to do with the fact I spent my youth reading a whole lot of male-oriented fiction which I can openly admit had a major influence on my outlook on life, both in what a good man ought to look like and in being the kind of woman that good man needed as a wife!
I had a story picked up by Racenteur Press for their "Weird West Revenants" 3rd weird west anthology, and my entire goal with that story was to sound like Louis L'Amour or the old John Wayne and Randolph Scott style westerns. If you ever get a chance to read it, I'd be interested to see if I hit the right tone to be "dude lit"!
My book, The Rooster Rider, scores on all points but Number 4; it's intended to be a serial and I have the MS for book two in editing. It's aimed more at boys but more adults have read it than kids and I've gotten good reviews from everyone.
Maybe I should be writing more MAF... If I'm unintentionally doing it anyway, I may as well capitalize on my hidden superpower.
Let's face it, the stuff out there now is FULL SUCK ASS lit.
I wrote the kind of story I'd want to read. Had to self pooblish since no one would touch it. Jeebus, you can't even find publishers who pick up anything like that. If it's not a bunch of men brushing each other's hair and talking about their feelings, you won't stand a chance. And never mind getting an agent; last I looked it was all faggotry all the time with the lit agent mob.
You should always write what you would like to read, IMO. It might take you a while to find your audience, but the timing is working out well in your case. We might be on the verge of a dude-lit renaissance.
Indeed.
Now to hatch a plot oozing with testosterone and hair….
Genre should be descriptive, not proscriptive. Even Mack Bolan had romance, for crying out loud.
I agree. However, a romantic subplot in The Executioner will read markedly different from one in something from Clancy or his successors. At least from what Clancy I'm familiar with. Same could be said for Coontz, Cussler, Wilbur Smith, and the other unisex authors.